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Post by chthulhu on Dec 28, 2014 7:07:01 GMT -8
I am trying to find a mechanical pencil that is suitable for carry in the pocket of my work shirt (knit T). 0.7 mm preferred, but not mandatory. Light in weight. Short enough to ride in a shallow pocket. No protruding tip sleeve (fully retractable, or a blunt conical tip). No cap (one-handed activation). Knock action repeater, not twist. I've been carrying a Pentel S57 classic, but the tip keeps poking through the pocket fabric, and I'm concerned about bending or breaking it. I've switched to a 1940s/1950s Dur-O-Lite Dur-O-Matic 0.9 mm repeater for the time being, but would prefer to have something I won't be as sad over if it gets damaged or lost, so not too costly. Any thoughts? Oh, here's the Dur-O-Matic:
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Post by rr4u on Dec 28, 2014 7:52:00 GMT -8
From the top of my head... - I think the Pentel Kerry is the perfect pocket pencil, but It has a cap. - The rOtring Rapid Pro is wonderful. The full sliding sleeve makes it pocket friendly, it's a bit long and heavy tough. - The Pilot "Shaker" H1010 (with both a shaker and standard knock mechanism and full sliding sleeve) is very good, they only come in .5. They are light and short enough to fit almost any pocket. - If you can find any (discontinued but still available on the web), the Pentel PW-45 "Technica X" (retractable mechanism and conical tip) is nice too, .5 only. - The Faber-Castell Grip 2011 mp's are delightful (retractible conical tip, lightweight, spring loaded pocket clip). They're only available in .7. - Another interesting offer by F-C is the Grip Plus, a bit shorter than the 2011. I Will post a few more options later. R. PSThat Dur-O-Matic is one good looking pencil!
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Post by flatline on Dec 28, 2014 8:16:06 GMT -8
If you're not picky about how it looks, there are a lot of cheap plastic mechanical pencils that have a retracting conical tip. Here's an example I found on jetpens: Staedtler Triplus Micro www.jetpens.com/Staedtler-Triplus-Micro-774-Mechanical-Pencil-0.7-mm/pd/10616Unfortunately, that particular pencil probably doesn't meet your needs because of its length (14.8 is slightly longer than a capped sharpie pen). I can't find it now, but way back in high school I had a pentel mechanical pencil with this type of retracting tip and it was a shorter length. Here's a different cheapie with a different type of sliding sleeve: Pilot Eno www.jetpens.com/Pilot-Color-Eno-Mechanical-Pencil-0.7-mm-Yellow-Body-Yellow-Lead/pd/1474Unfortunately, it's even longer than the Staedtler! This is the pencil I always have in my phone holster: Zebra Mini TS-3 www.jetpens.com/Zebra-Mini-TS-3-Mechanical-Pencil-0.5-mm-Silver-Body/pd/576The sleeve is fixed, but it's so short (10cm) that if clipped into your pocket, the tip will never reach the bottom. However, it's not a comfortable pencil due to its minuscule width. Have you looked at the cheap mechanical pencils available at your local office supply or department store? --flatline
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Post by chthulhu on Dec 28, 2014 9:59:48 GMT -8
Thank you both for the suggestions. The Grip 2011 in matte black looks good, though a bit more than I was hoping to spend. The Technica-X is a possibility if I can find one, though I should probably have added "no cheap plastic" and "no soft grip" to my criteria. <G>
I have the Staedtler and the Pilot in my Jetpens wish list, and I have two of the little Zebra p7p sets already. One I found at a yard sale a few years ago, and paid a whole dollar for the set, including refills and a little pocket pouch. :-)
Overall length can be offset by a lighter weight and/or clip placement. I don't mind so much if it sticks up out of the pocket, but the clip has to secure it well.
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Post by chthulhu on Dec 28, 2014 10:13:13 GMT -8
PSThat Dur-O-Matic is one good looking pencil! It's the least attractive of the several specimens I have, and probably the most rugged with its chrome-on-brass barrel; the others have aluminum or plastic barrels. It's already missing a patch of chrome plating near the tip, and I wouldn't be quite as heartbroken over its damage or loss as I would one of the others.
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Post by chthulhu on Dec 28, 2014 10:44:03 GMT -8
Just for fun, I yanked the fixed sleeve out of the tip of a P209, and other than length it would work. Have to see if I can make the clip stay in place further down the barrel ...
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Post by rr4u on Dec 28, 2014 10:59:24 GMT -8
...though I should probably have added "no cheap plastic" and "no soft grip" to my criteria. <G> That will definitely narrow your search and make things a bit more difficult. So, basically you want a short all metal with a strong clip, pocket friendly/safe, incremental advance mechanism, preferably in .7, mechanical pencil! Mmmmmm ...that's a tough one! If only the Lamy Scribble barrel were metal... They're beautifully made and the barrel is extremely resistant. ABS plastic I think. Excellent ergonomics, they fit perfectly in the hand. They are short and light and very well balanced too. Also, the clip is removable. available in 3.15 and 0.7. Not cheap though! www.lamy.com/eng/b2c/scribbleR.
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Post by rr4u on Dec 28, 2014 11:08:34 GMT -8
Just for fun, I yanked the fixed sleeve out of the tip of a P209, and other than length it would work. Have to see if I can make the clip stay in place further down the barrel ... Ouch! eheheh ...With all the inherit merits of a practical approach! I guess you can easily tighten the clip spreads(?) with a set of pliers. R.
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Post by rr4u on Dec 28, 2014 11:11:19 GMT -8
PSThat Dur-O-Matic is one good looking pencil! It's the least attractive of the several specimens I have, and probably the most rugged with its chrome-on-brass barrel; the others have aluminum or plastic barrels. It's already missing a patch of chrome plating near the tip, and I wouldn't be quite as heartbroken over its damage or loss as I would one of the others. Ah, I see. Still, a very nice specimen! R.
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Post by chthulhu on Dec 28, 2014 11:31:22 GMT -8
...though I should probably have added "no cheap plastic" and "no soft grip" to my criteria. <G> That will definitely narrow your search and make things a bit more difficult. So, basically you want a short all metal with a strong clip, pocket friendly/safe, incremental advance mechanism, preferably in .7, mechanical pencil! Mmmmmm ...that's a tough one! If only the Lamy Scribble barrel were metal... They're beautifully made and the barrel is extremely resistant. ABS plastic I think. Excellent ergonomics, they fit perfectly in the hand. They are short and light and very well balanced too. Also, the clip is removable. available in 3.15 and 0.7. Not cheap though! www.lamy.com/eng/b2c/scribbleR. Emphasis on "cheap" rather than on "plastic." I have no objection to plastics, per se. A Scribble has been on my wish list for some time.
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Post by chthulhu on Dec 28, 2014 11:33:18 GMT -8
Just for fun, I yanked the fixed sleeve out of the tip of a P209, and other than length it would work. Have to see if I can make the clip stay in place further down the barrel ... Ouch! eheheh ...With all the inherit merits of a practical approach! I guess you can easily tighten the clip spreads(?) with a set of pliers. R. Or turn the barrel to a single OD (I have a lathe). :-)
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Post by rr4u on Dec 28, 2014 11:36:49 GMT -8
I have the Staedtler and the Pilot in my Jetpens wish list... Overall length can be offset by a lighter weight and/or clip placement. I don't mind so much if it sticks up out of the pocket, but the clip has to secure it well. If I were looking for something practical, affordable, with very good quality that could be easily replaced if lost, then I would get a Pilot "The Shaker" H1010. You would be amazed on how good they are. I ended up with four of them. One for the collection, one as a user and two backups. Been using it for almost 5 years, still works as new! I think It won't need to be replaced soon. If well cared, I guess it will run without problems for a very, very long time. BTW, they are 13,5 cm long and the clip assembly is 2.2 cm from the top. Only 11,3 cm when clipped inside a pocket. There's a catch though, the current production don't seem to be as good as previous ones! In the picture you can see the differences. Current pencil is the bottom one. Mine are from an older production run. Like the one on the top ...That is why I kept four of them! R
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Post by rr4u on Dec 28, 2014 11:41:08 GMT -8
Sorry I don't get it. Can you please be more specific? R.
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Post by flatline on Dec 28, 2014 15:34:24 GMT -8
I gave up on my quest to find a pocket-safe pencil once I found the Rotring Rapid Pro.Unfortunately, it's heavy and pricey (for a pencil), which violates the constraints you've given.
Can you give us some examples of pencils that you've already looked at and give us an idea what you liked and didn't like about them in regards to this quest?
--flatline
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Post by chthulhu on Dec 28, 2014 15:51:54 GMT -8
Sorry I don't get it. Can you please be more specific? R. The P series pencil barrels all have a profile that is widest at the middle, smaller at the button end, and smaller still where the tip screws on. The clip sits about 1.5 cm from the button end, in a recessed area that prevents it from moving around or along the barrel. One *could* turn the barrel on a lathe and reduce the entire Outside Diameter to that of the recessed area, which would allow the clip to be moved anywhere along the barrel.
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Post by chthulhu on Dec 28, 2014 16:14:22 GMT -8
I gave up on my quest to find a pocket-safe pencil once I found the Rotring Rapid Pro.Unfortunately, it's heavy and pricey (for a pencil), which violates the constraints you've given. Can you give us some examples of pencils that you've already looked at and give us an idea what you liked and didn't like about them in regards to this quest? --flatline The closest I've come are a couple of things from Ohto, which would do nicely if their conical tips were made of metal instead of plastic. The two Ohto pencils I have are all badly worn at those tips after only moderate use. So far, nothing I've seen in current offerings fits *all* my criteria, but I could live with 0.5 mm leads if I had to. I may just have to use a Parker Jotter ballpoint with a 0.9 mm pencil cartridge, or use a cartridge in another modern ballpoint that accepts Parker-type (aka G2) refills. I do prefer the classic styling over the drafting pencil style that's currently fashionable. Parker made the cartridges in the 1950s and 1960s, and Schmidt makes several now in 0.5, 0.7, and 0.9 mm:
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Post by rr4u on Dec 28, 2014 20:14:24 GMT -8
Man, I totally forgot to mention the Caran d'Ache 844. A true classic, plus it meets all your criteria. They are very well made. Only 13,1 cm long, lightweight all metal construction (aluminum), conical tip (fixed but quite safe), incremental advance mechanism, .7 only and removable pocket clip (eight can be adjusted). As for ergonomics, despite being top heavy (the balance point is about 3.5 cm from the top, push button included) its quite comfortable to use. The hexagonal shaped barrel gives a good grip. There's also a few nice colors to choose from. An affordable instrument that worths every cent! May very well be what you're looking for. I love my red set, BP (black gel) / MP (B) / 2.0 LH (3B). Won a place among my permanent rotation (user) items, even has his own leather pouch. R.
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Post by chthulhu on Dec 28, 2014 20:29:00 GMT -8
Added to my wish list, along with an 849 ballpoint, both in black to match my 2mm Fixpencil. :-)
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Post by rr4u on Dec 29, 2014 11:10:35 GMT -8
Added to my wish list, along with an 849 ballpoint, both in black to match my 2mm Fixpencil. :-) Nice. I have no doubts you will love that set! Besides my red 849 ballpoint I also have the limited edition Caran d'Ache 849 Original BP. Awesome pens, specially the LE. They build them like tanks and they are equipped with the smoothest mechanism I ever tried. I don't remember of any of my Caran d'Aches ever failed me. Used a Fixpencil 22 for more than 20 years. Still works like new and still looks nice, despite some minor chipping on the finishing (on the top where the push button sits) and the polished patina on the barrel won by intensive use. After all that time of good service I retired it. Little over three years ago the red Fixpencil 884 (AKA the Junior version) took his place. R.
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Post by rr4u on Dec 29, 2014 11:20:09 GMT -8
Sorry I don't get it. Can you please be more specific? R. ...One *could* turn the barrel on a lathe and reduce the entire Outside Diameter to that of the recessed area, which would allow the clip to be moved anywhere along the barrel. I see. Wouldn't the plastic be too thin for that? It would be a nice mod if you could pull it out. R.
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Post by chthulhu on Dec 29, 2014 20:11:50 GMT -8
It shouldn't be too thin: the recess for the clip has to be the thinnest part.
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Post by flatline on Dec 30, 2014 20:13:46 GMT -8
Have you found what you wanted yet?
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Post by chthulhu on Dec 31, 2014 6:16:15 GMT -8
I'll know when the 844 arrives. :-) The Dur-O-Matic keeps breaking leads, so I've switched to a 1980s Sheaffer pencil, model name unknown but probably produced by Sailor in Japan. 0.7 mm and a retracting sleeve, suitable length, and reasonably light in weight:
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Post by chthulhu on Jan 3, 2015 14:55:32 GMT -8
I received my Caran d'Ache 844 pencil today, and it will probably do very nicely for my needs. There is a short, fixed sleeve at the tip, but it doesn't seem inclined to snag on T-shirt knit fabric, and it's thick enough that I doubt it will be damaged easily. The clip seems to be pinned in place, but it might fit the pocket as-is; we shall see. The matching 849 ballpoint is on its way. :-)
I'd also like to have more of the lead that this pencil shipped with; very nice stuff!
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Post by rr4u on Jan 4, 2015 9:18:50 GMT -8
I received my Caran d'Ache 844 pencil today, and it will probably do very nicely for my needs. There is a short, fixed sleeve at the tip, but it doesn't seem inclined to snag on T-shirt knit fabric, and it's thick enough that I doubt it will be damaged easily. The clip seems to be pinned in place, but it might fit the pocket as-is; we shall see. The matching 849 ballpoint is on its way. :-) I'd also like to have more of the lead that this pencil shipped with; very nice stuff! I am glad you liked the 844. The clips are removable (can be bought separately) but they do fit very tight! The leads are 0.7 Caran d'Ache in B. Get ready to experience one of the smoothes ball point mechanisms of all time. Besides the proprietary Caran d'Ache refills, the Goliath (of remarkable good quality), 849's also take all Parker G2 and Parker G2 style refills on the market. Extremely versatile as there are numerous options to choose from! I hope you enjoy your Caran d'Aches as much as I enjoy mine. R.
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Post by rr4u on Jan 4, 2015 9:25:24 GMT -8
...so I've switched to a 1980s Sheaffer pencil, model name unknown but probably produced by Sailor in Japan. 0.7 mm and a retracting sleeve, suitable length, and reasonably light in weight: Nice pencil! R.
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Post by flatline on Jan 4, 2015 9:41:43 GMT -8
I received my Caran d'Ache 844 pencil today, and it will probably do very nicely for my needs. There is a short, fixed sleeve at the tip, but it doesn't seem inclined to snag on T-shirt knit fabric, and it's thick enough that I doubt it will be damaged easily. The clip seems to be pinned in place, but it might fit the pocket as-is; we shall see. The matching 849 ballpoint is on its way. :-) I'd also like to have more of the lead that this pencil shipped with; very nice stuff! I am glad you liked the 844. The clips are removable (can be bought separately) but they do fit very tight! The leads are 0.7 Caran d'Ache in B. Get ready to experience one of the smoothes ball point mechanisms of all time. Besides the proprietary Caran d'Ache refills, the Goliath (of remarkable good quality), 849's also take all Parker G2 and Parker G2 style refills on the market. Extremely versatile as there are numerous options to choose from! I hope you enjoy your Caran d'Aches as much as I enjoy mine. R. So is that what is generically called a "parker-style" refill? If so, then you could use a fisher space pen refill using the adapter sold with the refill. Not that I'm suggesting you do that (people seem very polarized when it comes to space pen refills. Either they adore them or they hate them). --flatline
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Post by rr4u on Jan 4, 2015 10:35:03 GMT -8
So is that what is generically called a "parker-style" refill? If so, then you could use a fisher space pen refill using the adapter sold with the refill. Not that I'm suggesting you do that (people seem very polarized when it comes to space pen refills. Either they adore them or they hate them). --flatline Yes, they are G2's! Not to confuse with Pilot G2's, those are very different. If Fisher Space Pen refills can be used on Parker ball points then they will also fit 849's. I have none so I cannot confirm it. A pressurized refill can be a plus mostly because it will always write, no matter in what conditions. I have a set of Uni-Ball Power Thank pens that have proved it. The best thing is that we are no longer limited to oil based ink. We now have the option of Gel and Hybrid/Liquid inks in a nice assortment of colors and point styles. It basically transforms an oil based ink ball point pen in a nice roller ball. ...and they don't stock them all! www.cultpens.com/c/q/explore/product-type/refills/parker-type-g2-refillsR.
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Post by flatline on Jan 4, 2015 13:07:45 GMT -8
Excellent news! I don't generally buy a pen unless I know I can put a space pen refill in it (even if I don't immediately plan to).
With few exceptions (like my fountain pens).
--flatline
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Post by chthulhu on Jan 4, 2015 14:15:31 GMT -8
I like the Fisher refills, not least because they're available locally. I don't think I can get the C d'A "Goliaths" anywhere nearby. :-)
rr4u, if the clip ends up too high on the pen to fit my work shirt pocket, I'll make a greater effort to make it move, but I don't want to damage the pen's finish in the process.
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